Jul 01 18:57:17 <--CLASS STARTED --> Jul 01 18:57:28 * kushal has changed the topic to: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | DOWNLOAD THIS http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do.pdf | From 7:00pm mbuf on FS project guidelines | 10:30pm rishi on shell commands | <--CLASS STARTED --> Jul 01 18:57:31 * mavu (n=satya@59.178.169.226) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 18:57:32 * kushal gives channel operator status to mbuf Jul 01 18:57:34 --> #2 Jul 01 18:57:43 * kushal gives channel operator status to Soumya Jul 01 18:57:52 The views expressed in this presentation are that of my own! Jul 01 18:58:07 People are welcome to agree to disagree; but, these things I have learnt from experience Jul 01 18:58:18 * mavu is now known as mavu_ Jul 01 18:58:27 so, I believe, it is the methodology of work that will be fruitful for all Jul 01 18:58:51 * rtnpro (n=rtnpro@121.241.211.243) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 18:58:54 Again, you are welcome to modify, re-distribute, copy this presentation provided you retain my name in the presentation Jul 01 18:59:12 --> #3 Jul 01 18:59:13 * amrita has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 01 18:59:23 * Kishan_ (n=Kishan@218.248.70.235) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 18:59:23 * amrita (n=amrita@117.201.96.52) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 18:59:40 People mistakenly call the system as "Linux"; we Free Software enthusiasts refer to the system as "GNU/Linux" Jul 01 19:00:11 Open source guys are comfortable with mixing proprietary as well as open source code; Free Software is different from Open Source Jul 01 19:00:42 The word "hacker" is heavily misused in the media; Hackers are programmers who pursue programming as an artistic passion, who are eager to solve challenging problems Jul 01 19:00:58 The people who steal passwords, break down networks, cause DoS attacks are called 'crackers' Jul 01 19:01:12 So, whenever anyone uses the terminology incorrectly, kindly correct them! Jul 01 19:01:17 --> #4 Jul 01 19:01:35 It is very important in society to understand the meaning of 'earn your living' Jul 01 19:02:02 most people try to inherit their parents' property or business, and live on it for life -- without doing much work Jul 01 19:02:05 * sumitc (n=Sumit@59.93.202.240) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:02:27 status in society is not measured by how much wealth you have, but, what you have contributed to society Jul 01 19:02:43 so, work is important in life; and a good balance between work and play is essential Jul 01 19:02:58 --> #5 Jul 01 19:03:15 * Debashree (n=Debashre@61.2.164.245) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:03:20 In the Free Software world, you have to have the eagerness and drive to get information Jul 01 19:04:03 Most of the information is already out there; even when you program, you are bound to get stuck with errors; but, ability to hunt on the Internet, with a resolve to solve the problem is important Jul 01 19:04:17 it is a contest of "Survival of the Fittest" Jul 01 19:04:40 * rtnpro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 01 19:04:46 When there is hunger for knowledge, you should not feel hungry for food :) Jul 01 19:05:24 basically, you should have the 'attitude' to aggressively work on code; and also have the 'aptitude' to solve problems Jul 01 19:05:41 logical reasoning in problem solving is a _must_ if you want to become a good developer Jul 01 19:05:52 --> #6 Jul 01 19:06:11 just because you have an engineering degree in your hand, it doesn't make you an engineer Jul 01 19:06:33 * rtnpro (n=rtnpro@121.241.211.243) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:06:35 just because you did a course in some technical institute, and you got a certificate, it doesn't make you an engineer Jul 01 19:06:53 just because you paid money for four years of engineering, it doesn't make you an engineer Jul 01 19:07:34 you cannot buy knowledge; you have to seek knowledge; unfortunately this educational society has been made into a business model, without imparting much know-how to "students" Jul 01 19:08:09 you can hold a ECE degree, and still do CS work; it really doesn't matter in the Industry Jul 01 19:08:24 all that matters is your ability to work; ability to solve problems; ability to learn Jul 01 19:08:50 Unfortunately, in most Industries, non-technical people review your resumes, and they see degree/certificates Jul 01 19:09:19 even then, you need to sustain yourself in the Industry, for which you should really work hard (bureaucracy is an exception) Jul 01 19:09:47 most students basically waste their four years of engineering, and "hope" that they can learn well during their job time Jul 01 19:10:10 you have to really compete with developers across the world; when you start working with Free Software projects, you interact with people across the world Jul 01 19:10:27 and you will realize what people of your age are doing, and where you really stand Jul 01 19:10:37 --> #7 Jul 01 19:10:58 As we discussed in our communication guidelines presentation, "functional English" is essential Jul 01 19:11:43 you should have the knack of reading, reading, reading -- HOWTOs on the web, e-mail/IRC instructions, books, FS magazines et. al. Jul 01 19:12:02 the more you read, the more you learn; atleast one technical book a week should be your target Jul 01 19:12:37 the day you stop reading, you will become stagnant, and you will not be able to keep up the pace with the Industry (and Academia) Jul 01 19:12:46 --> #8 Jul 01 19:13:11 We have covered mailing list guidelines in our discussion yesterday; Jul 01 19:13:26 as you gain experience, you should learn to strictly follow the guidelines Jul 01 19:13:34 --> #9 Jul 01 19:13:50 People usually come and ask where can I get projects to work on; Jul 01 19:14:05 there are lot of collaborative development sites, where you can create an account Jul 01 19:14:18 most projects call for developers with the necessary skills Jul 01 19:14:31 so you can search for projects of your interests and the skills that they require Jul 01 19:15:02 you should always choose projects with an objective in mind, that at the end of the project, I will learn A or B or C Jul 01 19:15:24 nobody knows everything in a project, until they start working on it; so one shouldn't be scared to take challenging projects Jul 01 19:15:25 * Debashree has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 01 19:15:56 there are always risks, but, you have nothing to lose; experience is what matters at the end Jul 01 19:16:05 --> #10 Jul 01 19:16:24 So, you decided on a project, or you have chosen some Mentor(s) to work with Jul 01 19:16:33 * rtnpro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 01 19:16:35 * deepakBCREC (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:16:41 People are not interested only in your coding skill; coding is only 10% of your profile Jul 01 19:16:56 wherever it is, there is more to your personality than the coding skills Jul 01 19:17:10 * Debashree (n=Debashre@61.0.133.53) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:17:16 this community is very sociable; so you also should learn to move around Jul 01 19:17:34 yes, with open communication streams, open discussions, people are likely to have difference of opinions Jul 01 19:17:48 but, that is common everywhere; so learn to move around, learn to make friends; Jul 01 19:18:16 when writing to a project team, or Mentor, always write about your skills, your area of interest, and something about yourself Jul 01 19:18:44 this community is built for the people; and it is not just code! Jul 01 19:18:52 --> #11 Jul 01 19:19:13 just because you have idle time in college, doesn't mean you can demand work from others :) Jul 01 19:19:35 most FS developers are working on it because they love what they do; Jul 01 19:19:39 * amrita_ (n=amrita@117.201.96.207) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:20:07 so if you are using their time, you have to be little courteous; time is money in this world, and it takes a lot to volunteer to do things Jul 01 19:20:20 but, there is nothing stronger than the heart of a volunteer! Jul 01 19:20:31 --> #12 Jul 01 19:20:32 * amrita has quit (Nick collision from services.) Jul 01 19:21:01 * amrita_ is now known as amrita Jul 01 19:21:08 people get hyped with the ideas and the fame of Free/Libre/Open Source, that they decide to do a final year FOSS project, just for the sake of it Jul 01 19:21:20 seriously, it is a waste of your time, the teams' time or your Mentor's time Jul 01 19:21:34 unless you really have the passion for it, don't attempt it Jul 01 19:21:43 --> #13 Jul 01 19:21:59 It is very important to have a discussion with your Mentor before you begin the project Jul 01 19:22:21 different people have different ways of work; time of work could be different Jul 01 19:22:37 * Kishan has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Jul 01 19:22:41 communication tool could be different; so it is important to sort all these before you start the project Jul 01 19:22:50 --> #14 Jul 01 19:23:08 because most developers are distributed, communication is vital Jul 01 19:23:13 --> #15 Jul 01 19:23:25 we have discussed the communication guidelines yesterday; Jul 01 19:23:30 * chacha_chaudhry has quit ("Ex-Chat") Jul 01 19:23:33 --> #16 Jul 01 19:23:44 English is the accepted language for communication in the Industry Jul 01 19:24:05 I am repeating it again and again, because, it is important! reading and comprehension are important! Jul 01 19:24:17 nobody cares whether your spoken is good or bad; Jul 01 19:24:42 * chacha_chaudhry (n=user@gnu-india/supporter/rakeshpandit) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:24:44 just like us Europeans native language is not English; but, most Free Software work, AFAIK, is done in Europe; Jul 01 19:24:59 because, they can really read and understand English; nobody cares about spoken English Jul 01 19:25:15 --> #17 Jul 01 19:25:40 people ask me how to improve their English, if it is bad; Jul 01 19:26:04 * chiks (i=7d140b22@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-01e7212ac0d85287) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:26:22 try to read computer magazines; participating in mailing list discussions -- understanding the conversations Jul 01 19:26:31 * sumitc has quit ("Leaving") Jul 01 19:26:34 the same applies to IRC discussions; trying out GNU/Linux HOWTOs Jul 01 19:27:07 most of us are good in our native language, because we speak a lot; so, also try speaking in English; participate in group discussions Jul 01 19:27:15 don't worry about your accent or grammar Jul 01 19:27:22 --> #18 Jul 01 19:27:47 Mentors are usually busy with work during week-days; so, it is good to have a chit-chat with them during the weekends Jul 01 19:28:06 unless they are not connected to the Internet; or, if you simply blog about it, then it will be noticed Jul 01 19:28:12 chiks: hey :) Jul 01 19:28:52 but, it is good to just put in a word or two Jul 01 19:29:11 a way to sync up with what you have been doing, or if you have any issues Jul 01 19:29:18 --> #19 Jul 01 19:29:31 Today is an exception, since, I am taking an hour of my work time, to spend time with you guyz Jul 01 19:29:56 * sumitc (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/sumitc) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:29:58 weekdays, use e-mail and blogs; IRC can be used on weekends, or if it is critical/urgent Jul 01 19:30:08 --> #20 Jul 01 19:30:33 as a technical "engineer" it is important to write detailed reports; when raising a problem, Jul 01 19:30:50 put screenshots, put logs, put error outputs; give detailed info as much as possible Jul 01 19:31:02 give step-by-step documentation that anyone can follow to re-create the problem you have Jul 01 19:31:32 * deepakBCREC_ (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:31:37 always give proof for the statements that you make; this is where there is a difference between a layman and an engineer Jul 01 19:31:46 --> #21 Jul 01 19:32:08 * rtnpro (n=rtnpro@121.241.211.243) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:32:18 You already know this; In most parts of the world, everything runs on time Jul 01 19:32:33 work, buses, trains, flights, appointments, meetings et. al. Jul 01 19:32:55 Time lost can never be re-gained, so use it wisely! Jul 01 19:33:02 * chiks has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") Jul 01 19:33:17 i am not saying you should work all the time; you should also balance work with play; but, just don't spend too much time playing :) Jul 01 19:33:17 * Subhodip (n=subhodip@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:33:27 --> #22 Jul 01 19:33:46 If you are unable to attend a meeting or a discussion, it is a _must_ to inform the other people that you cannot do so Jul 01 19:33:53 so, they can get on with it, or do some other work Jul 01 19:34:16 basically, you shouldn't keep others' waiting; for everyone time is the essence Jul 01 19:34:21 --> #23 Jul 01 19:34:48 when chatting, people don't follow the full-stops, semi-colons, or commas, or exclamation marks! Jul 01 19:34:51 * ria (n=ria@121.245.51.20) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:34:59 so it is hard to tell whether you are making a statement or asking a question Jul 01 19:35:35 "You have a DVD" is different from "You have a DVD?" in chat Jul 01 19:36:10 so, i was chatting with this student, and he forgot to put a question mark; so I was thinking that he was telling me something Jul 01 19:36:55 but he was asking questions, for 5 minutes; and i only kept answering "Ok" Jul 01 19:37:06 --> #24 Jul 01 19:37:32 Professionalism at work is one of the essentials of Free Software work Jul 01 19:37:36 --> #25 Jul 01 19:37:50 Of course, mentors cannot do everything for you :) Jul 01 19:38:07 You need to do something; if they can do it, why should they give you some work to do? Jul 01 19:38:21 * arpita (n=arpita@117.201.96.199) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:38:35 It is meant for your learning needs; but, one student started off with abstract, and it went all the way to presentation Jul 01 19:38:43 of course, i had to refuse due to lack of time Jul 01 19:38:57 --> #26 Jul 01 19:39:29 when you start with a project, it is good to start working on smaller tasks Jul 01 19:39:45 on completion of those, you gain lot of confidence, and it motivates you to do bigger things Jul 01 19:40:20 yes, you have a steep learning curve, because, we haven't done anything productive 'learning' in our colleges Jul 01 19:40:44 so, you are bound to stumble, fall, cry, get fed up; but, if you persevere, you will see light at the end of the tunnel! Jul 01 19:41:11 --> #27 Jul 01 19:41:22 daily update on blogs is ideal Jul 01 19:41:36 * Subhodip has quit (Remote closed the connection) Jul 01 19:41:43 but, as we discussed yesterday, it is a way of keeping a check on yourself, that you have to do something to put something on the blog Jul 01 19:41:56 and also, it is very useful documentation Jul 01 19:42:20 if you go on a holiday during the weekend, you can just look at your blog post that you did on a Friday, and see where you left off Jul 01 19:43:15 studying in the night before the exam, doesn't work in the real world -- unfortunately for all! Jul 01 19:43:30 do daily work, and it will help you reach deadlines Jul 01 19:43:38 --> #28 Jul 01 19:43:59 The learning curve is really steep; it is a mighty challenge; either you are in, or you are out :) Jul 01 19:44:07 --> #29 Jul 01 19:44:34 Always write as detailed technical reports as possible Jul 01 19:44:50 --> #30 Jul 01 19:45:11 So, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the other person; think about what questions he/she will ask you when trying to solve this problem Jul 01 19:45:42 sometimes things don't get done; take a break; do something else, and a change of mind, will hint you to the solution! Jul 01 19:45:57 --> #31 Jul 01 19:46:15 There are very common mistakes that newbies make when reporting a problem Jul 01 19:46:23 Please avoid. Jul 01 19:46:31 --> #32 Jul 01 19:46:36 More documentation to read! Jul 01 19:46:52 * deepakBCREC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jul 01 19:46:54 Most "students" pick a subject of interest, based on the staff -- unfortunately Jul 01 19:47:13 This should not be the case with you, because you have a world of resources to look into Jul 01 19:47:29 * rtnpro_ (n=rtnpro_@121.241.211.243) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:47:38 You should read more documentation than what is given to you -- that is where your attitude comes into play Jul 01 19:48:08 * rtnpro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 01 19:48:11 if there is one book for "shell scripting", you explore 3-4 books and see how different authors have expressed their skills; maybe the thoughts don't overlap Jul 01 19:48:34 if it is repetition, it is good; because, it refreshes your memory! Jul 01 19:48:51 --> #33 Jul 01 19:49:20 You can put documentation in a project twiki or in your blog; at the end of the week, you will have so much documentation, that anyone can just read it like a story Jul 01 19:49:34 of course, you can take only relevant content from your blog and use it for the project documentation Jul 01 19:49:52 --> #34 Jul 01 19:50:29 If you have to go from Chennai->Hyderabad->Kolkatta, you have to follow that! Jul 01 19:50:48 that is how HOWTOs are designed; if you skip any steps in-between, you will end up in the wrong place! Jul 01 19:51:02 same when answering questions, make sure, you have answered all the questions Jul 01 19:51:38 yes, there are commands, environment settings, and it looks very cryptic at first sight; but, systems we work are very complex Jul 01 19:51:46 that is what we get paid for :) Jul 01 19:51:56 --> #35 Jul 01 19:52:33 there is saying that "empty vessels make the most noise", and it is very true Jul 01 19:52:58 with little knowledge and enlightenment, you will become very enthusiastic, that you can easily forget the basics Jul 01 19:53:23 it is important to be patient, and learn the trade, rather than the tricks of the trade Jul 01 19:53:43 * ecntrk (n=ecntrk@117.194.1.62) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:53:49 so, it is important to consult with your mentor, if in doubt; don't make hasty, irrational decisions Jul 01 19:54:11 when communicating to team members, it is important to send it to the mailing list, or if sending private e-mail, make sure you CC all team members Jul 01 19:54:37 if you miss somebody, you will disrupt the group dynamics == they will not trust you anymore Jul 01 19:54:59 so, keep everyone in the boat in sync; if you have to cross the ocean, everyone in the boat has to be in sync; Jul 01 19:55:13 you don't want your project to be another Titanic Jul 01 19:55:27 --> #36 Jul 01 19:55:45 Yes, always make sure everyone is informed Jul 01 19:55:52 --> #37 Jul 01 19:56:10 People have their patience; don't test it too much; Jul 01 19:56:20 if you are not comfortable with the project, or team members, just leave Jul 01 19:56:52 it is also not good to keep repeating the same mistakes, again and again; it is unnecessary work for you and for the team Jul 01 19:57:19 try to learn to accept positive criticism in a proper manner, else ignore and move on in life Jul 01 19:57:48 someone point or the other you will get involved in heated discussion in mailing lists, where different parties disagree Jul 01 19:58:02 don't take things to the heart, just ignore and move on; Jul 01 19:58:07 --> #38 Jul 01 19:58:27 The other obvious question, "Can my roommate or benchmate or classmate also join the project?" Jul 01 19:58:52 Team members don't care whether it is your roommate or benchmate or classmate, as long as they can contriibute and have the passion to work; Jul 01 19:59:19 1 july...mbuf..FS project guidelines,..... Jul 01 19:59:20 * Now talking on #dgplug Jul 01 19:59:20 * Topic for #dgplug is: Welcome to Linux User's Group of Durgapur | Mailing list at http://lists.dgplug.org/listinfo.cgi/users-dgplug.org | Old classes http://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/ | DOWNLOAD THIS http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do.pdf | From 7:00pm mbuf on FS project guidelines | 10:30pm rishi on shell commands | <--CLASS STARTED --> Jul 01 19:59:20 * Topic for #dgplug set by kushal at Tue Jul 01 18:58:01 2008 Jul 01 19:59:22 * amrita (n=amrita@117.201.96.52) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:59:24 People mistakenly call the system as "Linux"; we Free Software enthusiasts refer to the system as "GNU/Linux" Jul 01 19:59:26 * Subhodip (n=subhodip@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:59:27 Open source guys are comfortable with mixing proprietary as well as open source code; Free Software is different from Open Source Jul 01 19:59:30 The word "hacker" is heavily misused in the media; Hackers are programmers who pursue programming as an artistic passion, who are eager to solve challenging problems Jul 01 19:59:33 The people who steal passwords, break down networks, cause DoS attacks are called 'crackers' Jul 01 19:59:35 So, whenever anyone uses the terminology incorrectly, kindly correct them! Jul 01 19:59:37 --> #4 Jul 01 19:59:39 It is very important in society to understand the meaning of 'earn your living' Jul 01 19:59:41 most people try to inherit their parents' property or business, and live on it for life -- without doing much work Jul 01 19:59:44 * sumitc (n=Sumit@59.93.202.240) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:59:46 status in society is not measured by how much wealth you have, but, what you have contributed to society Jul 01 19:59:51 so, work is important in life; and a good balance between work and play is essential Jul 01 19:59:53 --> #5 Jul 01 19:59:55 * Debashree (n=Debashre@61.2.164.245) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 19:59:55 * kushal removes voice from Kishan_ Jul 01 19:59:57 In the Free Software world, you have to have the eagerness and drive to get information Jul 01 19:59:58 wait! Jul 01 19:59:59 Most of the information is already out there; even when you program, you are bound to get stuck with errors; but, ability to hunt on the Internet, with a resolve to solve the problem is important Jul 01 20:00:02 it Jul 01 20:00:06 oops!...sorry!! Jul 01 20:00:09 * kushal has kicked Kishan_ from #dgplug (kushal) Jul 01 20:00:20 let him come back Jul 01 20:00:26 But, if your roommate or benchmate or classmate leaves in-between the project release cycle, you shouldn't feel dis-heartened! Jul 01 20:00:36 it is common in projects, for people to move in and out! Jul 01 20:00:47 --> #39 Jul 01 20:01:08 People are willing to help you, so you should not ask questions like "How much salary are you getting?" Jul 01 20:01:33 or, "Where is your house?", "How many siblings do you have?" Jul 01 20:01:41 * Kishan_ (n=Kishan@218.248.70.235) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:01:56 Unless you are really known the person, people need not open up to share their feelings with you Jul 01 20:02:19 --> #40 Jul 01 20:02:49 W.r.t. development, writing small code during the early part of the project and submitting them is important Jul 01 20:03:04 because, people can assess your coding style, logic, license, copyright notices et. al. Jul 01 20:03:25 it is easier to correct mistakes early, rather than let you become a full-grown programmer, and then it is hard to change Jul 01 20:03:29 * Stefan^ (n=stefan@59.93.204.156) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:03:44 of course, with great attitude, you can still change; but, why leave it for so long? Jul 01 20:04:00 commit early and often - that is the principle to be followed; Jul 01 20:04:08 --> #41 Jul 01 20:04:24 * techno_freak (n=parthan@unaffiliated/teknofreak) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:04:27 Assumptions are bad, never make them; don't say "I thought if I did like this, it will work". Jul 01 20:04:47 No, it doesn't happen like that in the real world; as engineers, you are expected to reason out why somethings failed, or why it worked! Jul 01 20:05:04 with Free Software you have the source code, so ability to use it to reason out things is a _must_. Jul 01 20:05:19 Even when following HOWTOs, try to understand what is happening in the system; Jul 01 20:05:34 it will greatly help your logical reasoning and your debugging skills Jul 01 20:05:39 --> #42 Jul 01 20:06:04 Unfortunately in this country, from what I have seen people are afraid to ask questions; you have to question everything! Jul 01 20:06:32 Being silent, means you are accepting what other people are saying (except this training session, of course) Jul 01 20:07:17 The more your aptitude to challenge problems, the more you question, the better the programmer you become, and a great asset to Society. Jul 01 20:07:23 --> #43 Jul 01 20:07:33 It is never late to start anything Jul 01 20:07:46 If you believe that is is truly possible, it is possible; Jul 01 20:07:59 "Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools" Jul 01 20:08:16 Thanks for your time; this ends my presentation for today. Jul 01 20:08:32 * Prakhar (n=prakhar@122.163.69.196) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:08:40 i am now open for questions. Jul 01 20:09:43 ! Jul 01 20:09:48 ! Jul 01 20:09:48 amrita, shoot Jul 01 20:09:50 ! Jul 01 20:09:59 ! Jul 01 20:10:12 ! Jul 01 20:10:19 mbuf, in software world on what basis are we given projects? Jul 01 20:10:37 amrita, define 'software world'? Jul 01 20:11:52 mbuf, where people uses some technology to produce something innovative Jul 01 20:11:53 * mbuf for define, we don't put a question mark at the end, AFAIK. Jul 01 20:12:39 amrita, it depends on 'where' means - Industry, Academia, or in the Community Jul 01 20:12:58 amrita, In the community, you are welcome to participate in any project you like Jul 01 20:13:06 mbuf, industry Jul 01 20:13:21 amrita, in the Academia, usually the professor assigns project work; in the Industry, you can choose your project, or they assign something for you Jul 01 20:13:43 amrita, again, this should be taken on a case-by-case basis Jul 01 20:13:48 amrita, it depends on the individual Jul 01 20:14:22 amrita, but, in the Free Software community, you don't wait for someone to give you work; that is what I meant by "Hunger for Knowledge" Jul 01 20:14:31 mbuf, if i am not comfortable for the project can i leave in between? Jul 01 20:14:39 amrita, you should seek out to do projects, to learn; if company is already doing FS work, it is great! Jul 01 20:14:59 amrita, you have to inform the team members about it, and do a formal "technology transfer" on what you have been working so far Jul 01 20:15:23 amrita, if you are in the middle of something, it is courteous to finish that work, before you leave Jul 01 20:15:44 amrita, remember in this community everything is open (including communication), so it should not reflect back on you sometime in the future Jul 01 20:16:01 deepakBCREC_, shoot! Jul 01 20:16:07 mbuf,thanks Jul 01 20:16:14 what does project documentation means? Jul 01 20:16:47 ! Jul 01 20:16:48 deepakBCREC_, setting up build environment; code API documentation; design documentation; testing methodologies used; sample output/logs; use cases et. al. Jul 01 20:17:12 Kishan_, shoot! Jul 01 20:17:17 what is "AFAIK" ? Jul 01 20:17:34 Kishan_, As Far As I Know (you didn't Google for it :) Jul 01 20:17:54 susenj, shoot! Jul 01 20:17:55 oh...got it .thanks. Jul 01 20:18:18 mbuf,what is DoS attack?? Jul 01 20:18:34 :0 Jul 01 20:18:44 susenj, Denial of Service; ping flood on a server is an example Jul 01 20:19:17 susenj, you keep pinging the server so it has to take care of your requests, while, it doesn't have time to service other clients, so you are denying service to others' Jul 01 20:19:26 Stefan^, shoot! Jul 01 20:19:33 ok,thanks Jul 01 20:20:19 * Num_Lock3d (n=stefan@59.93.204.156) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:20:26 Good evening all :) Jul 01 20:20:29 * amrita has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jul 01 20:20:34 * Subhodip has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jul 01 20:20:43 Num_Lock3d, class is going all Jul 01 20:20:52 oops sorry Jul 01 20:20:57 am I interrupting ? Jul 01 20:21:01 ! Jul 01 20:21:05 Num_Lock3d, yes Jul 01 20:21:10 sorry Jul 01 20:21:20 Num_Lock3d, are you Stefan^ ? Jul 01 20:21:26 yes Jul 01 20:21:32 my connection timed out Jul 01 20:21:34 then ask your question Jul 01 20:21:34 Num_Lock3d, shoot your question! Jul 01 20:22:15 * amrita (n=amrita@117.201.98.46) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:22:29 ! Jul 01 20:22:38 ecntrk, shoot! Jul 01 20:22:51 how can we view thé contents of initrd ? Jul 01 20:22:53 mbuf, What are the most essential skills to be a Able FS Programer? Jul 01 20:23:13 * Subhodip (n=subhodip@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:23:28 * Num_Lock3d is now known as Stefan_^ Jul 01 20:23:31 Num_Lock3d, you need to dd /dev/ramXY, dump the initrd to RAM, and mount it with -o loop Jul 01 20:23:52 ecntrk, that is too generic a question; Jul 01 20:23:55 can't we ungzip it ? Jul 01 20:23:56 Actually I think i'm good at so called bookish knowledge og C, C++... Jul 01 20:24:12 I heard that its actually á gzipped image... Jul 01 20:24:21 ! Jul 01 20:24:22 Soumya Stefan^ Stefan_^ Subhodip sumitc susenj Jul 01 20:24:24 But you know, i'm feeling that there got to be more things, I need to brush up.. Jul 01 20:24:30 ánd initramd is á cpio one Jul 01 20:24:32 ecntrk, bookish knowledge doesn't sell Jul 01 20:24:36 Stefan^, please try to stay in the class Jul 01 20:24:48 Stefan^, read: http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ramfs-rootfs-initramfs.txt Jul 01 20:25:05 ecntrk, there is a lot of difference between theory and practicals Jul 01 20:25:08 rtnpro_, shoot! Jul 01 20:25:11 I now that, mbuf... Jul 01 20:25:33 How do we take part in debugging? Jul 01 20:25:39 I just wanted some specifird answer from you... Jul 01 20:25:46 What are the prerequisites? Jul 01 20:26:02 What are the tools required? Jul 01 20:26:17 rtnpro_, to begin with you can use gdb; but, logical reasoning comes with your interest in solving puzzles Jul 01 20:26:51 mbuf, what is gdb? Jul 01 20:27:15 ecntrk, start working on projects, and writing code; can't judget anything based on bookish know-how though Jul 01 20:27:15 mbuf, Let me do a google Jul 01 20:27:20 rtnpro_, better :) Jul 01 20:27:52 mbuf, ok ...Got it...Thanks Jul 01 20:28:12 * rangeen (i=sherry@61.2.163.9) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:28:16 any other questions? Jul 01 20:28:17 ! Jul 01 20:28:23 sumitc, shoot! Jul 01 20:28:29 Thanks , mbuf Jul 01 20:28:41 while doing FS projects, you mentioned about having a mentor Jul 01 20:29:01 sumitc, not necessarily; it could be a team as well Jul 01 20:29:07 Why is it important to have a mentor while doing a project? Jul 01 20:29:26 How exactly can a mentor help? Jul 01 20:29:27 sumitc, that are part of a project Jul 01 20:29:37 sumitc, some people like one-to-one correspondence Jul 01 20:30:40 sumitc, like personal tutoring; but, again, it depends on how much time the Mentor can provide Jul 01 20:31:01 sumitc, but, I'd prefer people to work in FS team projects, so you get to interact with lot of people Jul 01 20:31:33 Jul 01 20:31:39 mbuf, ! Jul 01 20:31:42 Jul 01 20:31:48 amrita, shoot! Jul 01 20:32:27 mbuf, what are the duties or work of a team leader other than the members? Jul 01 20:32:48 * rangeen has quit (Client Quit) Jul 01 20:33:21 amrita, there is no strict hierarcy as such in FS teams; Jul 01 20:33:47 amrita, usually the biggest *contributor* becomes Maintainer of code, and you have developers who submit code/patch to him/her Jul 01 20:34:12 amrita, only in corporate, formal structures people do politics with hierarchy Jul 01 20:34:20 mbuf, in industries? Jul 01 20:34:32 amrita, yes, and it is quite prevalent in India Jul 01 20:34:44 amrita, in the FS world, technicality is given more credibility, and hence, is valued more Jul 01 20:35:09 ! Jul 01 20:35:15 * Stefan^ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jul 01 20:35:18 amrita, so it doesn't matter if you have less Industry experience than others; if you are technically solid in whatever you are working on, you can be the Maintainer/Technical Lead/Architect for the project Jul 01 20:35:19 * ecntrk (n=ecntrk@117.194.1.62) has left #dgplug Jul 01 20:35:43 amrita, the Freedom you get in the FS world is what makes these people work towards it! Jul 01 20:35:50 amrita, Jul 01 20:35:52 sumitc, shoot! Jul 01 20:35:59 Do you really think what we are taught in colleges are irrelevant when it comes to practical life? Jul 01 20:36:02 mbuf, thanks Jul 01 20:36:41 sumitc, 100% yes, from my experience Jul 01 20:37:21 sumitc, even theory is not taught properly, why talk about practicality? Jul 01 20:37:25 sumitc, read: http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/shakthimaan-paper/shakthimaan-paper.pdf Jul 01 20:37:33 sumitc, read: http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/shakthimaan-paper/shakthimaan-paper-presentation.pdf Jul 01 20:37:37 ok, thanks Jul 01 20:37:45 I needed to know that Jul 01 20:37:49 Jul 01 20:38:02 sumitc, I have never seen anyone argue against it; so I accept that everyone has agreed to it Jul 01 20:38:37 ! Jul 01 20:38:55 that means i need to put in an extra effort to be in tune with the industry/FoSS world, is it? Jul 01 20:38:57 * deepakBCREC__ (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:38:59 * deepakBCREC__ is now known as deepakBCREC Jul 01 20:39:32 deepakBCREC, /nick deepak Jul 01 20:39:50 * deepakBCREC (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has left #dgplug Jul 01 20:39:51 sumitc, yes Jul 01 20:39:55 Prakhar, shoot! Jul 01 20:40:05 * deepakBCREC (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:40:24 i think this kind of procedure is followed only in India, right? Jul 01 20:40:32 sumitc, you cannot get back the time whatever you have used so far; so you have to put even more effort to catch up with others Jul 01 20:41:02 got it, thanks Jul 01 20:41:03 Prakhar, what procedure? Jul 01 20:41:05 Jul 01 20:41:45 * deepakBCREC__ (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:41:45 the teaching procedure which disables students from entering new avenues Jul 01 20:42:17 Prakhar, the way I see it is, you take the college/university, staff, your fellow students out of the equation Jul 01 20:42:41 * sumitc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 3.0/2008060309]") Jul 01 20:42:46 Prakhar, if you don't eat food, you are going to starve; why do you expect others to feed you? that is what i meant by "Hunger for knowledge" Jul 01 20:42:58 yes, right Jul 01 20:43:16 Prakhar, if you have the drive, motivation, initiative to use a GNU/Linux system, you can learn whatever you want, from application development, to tools, middleware, operating systems, device drivers and what not! Jul 01 20:43:37 Prakhar, so, the point I am trying to make is that your future is in your hands; Jul 01 20:43:51 right, I'm also an engineering student and I have seen the way subjects are handled. i completely agree with you. Jul 01 20:43:54 Prakhar, unfortunately, people use others as an excuse Jul 01 20:44:14 * sumitc (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/sumitc) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:44:18 Prakhar, it doesn't help in the long run because, end of the day, you don't learn anything, it is you who is going to suffer Jul 01 20:44:33 Prakhar, by 'you' I didn't mean you; I meant "engineering students" Jul 01 20:44:39 ! Jul 01 20:44:41 yes, this is one the favorite topics Jul 01 20:44:48 absolutely right Jul 01 20:44:49 sumitc, shoot! Jul 01 20:44:52 thanks Jul 01 20:44:56 Jul 01 20:45:08 Is there any way I can earn a living by contributing to the FS world? Jul 01 20:45:30 sumitc, most companies use Free Software; they just like others, don't know it is Free Software Jul 01 20:45:41 sumitc, but, everyone uses it; they just don't go announcing it, that is all Jul 01 20:46:06 mbuf, ! Jul 01 20:46:07 sumitc, some companies openly announce, or even sponsor Free Software conferences, as a means of attracting developers, and a way of giving back to the Community Jul 01 20:46:19 amrita, shoot! Jul 01 20:46:21 thats good Jul 01 20:46:25 Jul 01 20:46:47 mbuf, what is the application of graphics or art in the industries? Jul 01 20:47:00 * mbuf these questions, and answers can be put up as FAQ in the dgplug wiki site :) Jul 01 20:47:16 * kushal is talking the charge Jul 01 20:47:23 * taking Jul 01 20:47:35 amrita, unfortunately i don't work on those lines; but, there are good Free Software tools that you can use like Gimp, Scribus, Blender, et. al. that you can use Jul 01 20:47:43 but only after the whole course Jul 01 20:47:54 amrita, BTW, these are very powerful and widely used Jul 01 20:48:10 amrita, Inkscape as well Jul 01 20:48:51 amrita, are you asking about where they use art/graphics ? Jul 01 20:49:30 kushal, i meant do they have importance very much? Jul 01 20:49:40 amrita, yes, yes! they are widely used Jul 01 20:50:18 because there is no single entity that represents these projects, and everyone uses it, people don't bother to advertise it Jul 01 20:50:20 kushal, except the logos or posters Jul 01 20:51:13 * sumitc has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox 3.0/2008060309]") Jul 01 20:51:14 amrita, there are lot of music/movie-creation software as well for FLOSS Jul 01 20:51:22 any other questions? Jul 01 20:51:33 mbuf, ok Jul 01 20:51:40 * sumitc (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/sumitc) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 20:52:42 mbuf, ! Jul 01 20:52:42 Ok, we will stop here. Jul 01 20:52:53 amrita, ok, shoot! Jul 01 20:53:12 * mbuf appreciates the "Hunger for Knowledge" Jul 01 20:53:15 everyone from it branch may not be good at programming Jul 01 20:53:34 so what other work they could get? Jul 01 20:53:40 amrita, who said IT is all about programming? Jul 01 20:54:14 but its given the greater importance Jul 01 20:54:22 amrita, by whom? Jul 01 20:54:48 not by anyone Jul 01 20:55:11 amrita, you define what is important to you; you do what you feel like; you work on projects that interest you Jul 01 20:55:13 but our faculty members gives stress on it Jul 01 20:56:01 amrita, end of the day what does that translate to? Jul 01 20:56:28 sorry "what "means? Jul 01 20:57:21 amrita, have people asked questions on "Why faculty members have not done research projects?", "Why they haven't attended International conferences"? "What new software they have written?" Jul 01 20:57:42 * deepakBCREC_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jul 01 20:57:49 amrita, "What new papers they have published, and where?", "If they don't work in the Industry, why they emphasis on all these?" Jul 01 20:58:24 amrita, you can count such dedicated people Jul 01 20:58:41 amrita, the point is, you need to see the bigger picture of the world; Jul 01 20:59:00 amrita, there is something called OPV (Other Peoples' View); before you come to any conclusion, you have to get opinion from different people Jul 01 20:59:46 amrita, I suggest you read the presentation and paper that I gave the link to earlier Jul 01 21:00:19 * deepakBCREC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jul 01 21:00:20 mbuf, ok Jul 01 21:00:32 Jul 01 21:00:42 Roll Call Jul 01 21:00:55 ria das Jul 01 21:00:56 Prakhar Agarwal Jul 01 21:00:57 Aritra Bose Jul 01 21:00:58 Pushkal Srivastava Jul 01 21:01:00 Sumit Chakraborty Jul 01 21:01:03 amrita mukherjee Jul 01 21:01:08 Kishan Goyal Jul 01 21:01:08 satya komaragiri Jul 01 21:01:13 Tanmaya Tewari Jul 01 21:01:16 >mbuf< thank you again :) Jul 01 21:01:25 arpita kapoor Jul 01 21:01:31 debashree banerjee Jul 01 21:02:02 * PraMS (n=chatzill@125.20.11.34) has joined #dgplug Jul 01 21:02:18 anyone else ? Jul 01 21:02:49 <--CLASS OVER-->