DGPLUG Summer Training Logs for 2018/07/02

13:29 : mbuf #startclass
13:29 : vshuklajr kps: there wasn't
13:29 : mbuf Roll call
13:29 : storymode7 Mayank Singhal
13:29 : shiva Shiva Saxena
13:29 : newrg Rajat Gupta
13:29 : cypher_ Naman Sharma
13:29 : kps Because i cannot find the logs
13:29 : bhavin192 Bhavin Gandhi
13:29 : sd30 Shruti Dash
13:29 : kvy Kumar Vipin Yadav
13:30 : kps Karan pratap
13:30 : priyankasaggu119 Priyanka Saggu
13:30 : vshuklajr Vivek Shukla
13:30 : man-jain Manank Patni
13:30 : Ved_13 Ved Sinha
13:30 : mnjit Manjeet mehta
13:30 : adityad97 Aditya Deshpande
13:30 : tatan_ Kazi Mehboob Zaman
13:30 : pr97 Priyanka Sharma
13:30 : kartikeya kartikeya singh
13:30 : jaydeep Jaydeep Borkar
13:30 : AdityaPatil Aditya Patil
13:30 : RJ722 Rahul Jha
13:30 : Sarques_ Gajendra Saraswat
13:30 : jasonbraganza Jason Braganza
13:30 : snandi shamik nandi
13:30 : hellozee Kuntal Majumder
13:31 : Rakshit__ Rakshit Airani
13:31 : ashwani Ashwani Singh
13:31 : olajayi__ Ola Ajayi
13:31 : prabhu Prabhu Sharan Singh
13:31 : bismi Janifa M
13:32 : ananyo Ananyo Maiti
13:32 : mbuf Today will be a review of the mbuf_2ndclass.log IRC session; I hope all of you are doing your homework, and have gone through the log
13:33 : I know there were guest sessions last week, but, you have been given quite a number of days to go through it
13:33 : philomath Roll call: Mohit Bansal
13:33 : gutsytechster Roll call:Prashant Sharma
13:33 : mbuf If you have any questions on the topics discussed in mbuf_2ndclass.log, we shall go over it today
13:34 : Please use "!" if you have a question, and wait for your turn to ask your question.
13:35 : devesh_verma Roll call Devesh Verma
13:35 : prabhu !
13:35 : mbuf next
13:35 : jasonbraganza !
13:36 : prabhu Can you give me the link to the log or date of that class?
13:36 : sourabh1031 Has the class started?
13:36 : mbuf prabhu, did you use a search engine or check the dgplug faq?
13:36 : cypher_ https://dgplug.org/irclogs/mbuf_2ndclass.log
13:36 : vshuklajr prabhu: https://www.dgplug.org/irclogs/mbuf_2ndclass.log
13:36 : codejacker Roll call:ankur vishwakarma
13:37 : prabhu mbuf, it's not available here - https://dgplug.org/irclogs/2018/
13:37 : sourabh1031 Sourabh Pruthi
13:37 : RatanShreshtha Roll Call: Ratan Kulshreshtha
13:37 : mbuf cypher_, vshuklajr do not spoon feed; we do not encourage this behaviour
13:37 : cypher01 mbuf: sure will keep in mind next time.
13:38 : mbuf prabhu, if it was not available there, then what did you do?
13:38 : prabhu mbuf, Then I came here as that was the only link I had.
13:38 : homuncculus roll call: vaibhav kaushik
13:38 : mbuf cypher01, you are all going to face life one day, and nobody is going to help you out;
13:38 : VirtualRcoder Roll call: Shubham Sharma
13:38 : cypher01 !
13:38 : mbuf prabhu, we have been emphasizing you to use a search engine before asking any question
13:38 : next
13:39 : callowidealist Roll call: jitendra kumar tripathi
13:39 : jasonbraganza mbuf, suggestions on increasing english vocabulary and comprehension considering it’s importance? as in as part of a routine?
13:39 : mbuf cypher01, unless you learn to self-learn, it is difficult to survive
13:39 : cypher01 as open source community we are supposed to help each other out, don't we?
13:39 : prabhu mbuf, I'll keep that in mind next time.
13:40 : mbuf jasonbraganza, reading habits are important to improve vocabulary; writing helps to share it with others and get others' point of view
13:40 : v16k Roll call: Vishal Kushwaha
13:40 : mbuf jasonbraganza, reading blogs, technical {books, magazines} etc. can help improve vocabulary
13:40 : newrg !
13:40 : cypher01 we learn more by collaborating with others, if i helped someone today then one day he/she would help me too.
13:41 : mbuf jasonbraganza, trying to explain what has been read to others will help in checking your understanding of the text
13:41 : jasonbraganza, read and write in the morning, when your mind is fresh (after a sound sleep)
13:42 : jasonbraganza, for everyone, please read "On Writing" by Stephen King, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Writing:_A_Memoir_of_the_Craft
13:42 : cypher01, there is a lot of difference between spoon feeding and guidance
13:42 : cypher01, a person who does not take the effort to follow instructions will tend to become lazy, and will continue the habit
13:42 : jasonbraganza thank you mbuf
13:43 : mbuf cypher01, the more you spoon feed, the more lazy they become; because, they know you will spoon feed them again
13:43 : cypher01, you only help people, if they have made an effort to find a solution to the question, and tried different approaches
13:43 : cypher01, by spoon feeding, you are actually making them worse
13:44 : cypher01, hope that clarifies the difference between spoon feeding and guidance; we are here to teach you how to eat on your own; not to spoon feed you every meal
13:44 : next
13:44 : cypher01 ok, thanks mbuf. Also i accidentally asked question out of turn so please pass on my question request.
13:45 : mbuf next
13:45 : newrg mbuf, you mentioned "reading at least 1 technical book a week",can you elaborate on that?Do you mean to finish 1 book a week?I am currently reading a book on C Programming and I think it will take me a few months to complete.Any guidelines on how to read technical books?
13:45 : j605 !!
13:45 : !
13:45 : mbuf newrg, that is a rough estimate; the idea being that you should keep reading
13:45 : newrg, in our industry, if you do not read and update your knowledge and skills, you will become outdated
13:46 : newrg, nobody will hire people who are not up to date with the skills
13:46 : newrg, you can read light material in the night, before going to bed as well
13:46 : newrg, heavy technical material are best read in the morning
13:46 : Rakshit__ !
13:46 : mbuf newrg, sure, some books may take more than a week, but, the point is that you should be reading on a regular basis
13:47 : newrg, and whatever you read, you should try and apply that (in a day-to-day task, or project, for example)
13:47 : next
13:47 : j605 I contribute with discussions and answering questions for a project. But I have only contributed a small one-line fix till now. The problem is I don't understand audio/video technically enough to contribute code. Where do you think I should start? Should I ask the some contributors for reading material.
13:47 : Rakshit__ How do you approach a mentor for a free software project ? and what are the prerequisite that the mentor looks for in a candidate?
13:47 : newrg mbuf, okay,thanks
13:48 : mbuf j605, I used to be a moderator at (GNU/)Linux forum for many years, and I only contributed as technical support
13:48 : j605, contribution does not necessarily mean code
13:48 : j605, you need to ask the question as to why you are interested in the project, and what is it that you want to do to improve the project
13:49 : j605, the "why" will keep you motivated to work in the project, and contribution could be helping other users, documentation, web site maintenance, bug fixing, code development, testing, infrastructurue deployment etc.
13:49 : j605, what do you mean by "don't understand audio/video"?
13:50 : poojaencoded roll call:Pooja kumari singh
13:50 : mbuf j605, most projects should have technical documentation (wiki, manual, mailing lists etc.) in written form
13:50 : j605, you can use them to gain insights on the history and the state of the project
13:51 : j605, if there are audio/video sessions, then you can ask one participant to send a minutes of the meeting (for the record), and you can go through it
13:51 : j605 mbuf: I have rudimentary understanding of codecs but not enough to write code in C that interfaces with ffmpeg to handle it. I could start with some toy projects with ffmpeg to get a better feel for it
13:51 : mbuf j605, you can ask for beginner tasks, and usually the team members will refer you to it
13:52 : j605, bug triaging (confirming the presence of a bug) is a good way to get started in any project
13:52 : j605, once you are able to reproduce a bug, you can try fixing it, and then send a patch
13:52 : j605, slowly, you will get a better understanding of the code base, and with the know-how will be in a position to implement feature requests
13:53 : j605, good code bases are usually divided into different modules, and you can pick on modules that are of interest to you, and see how to solve the bugs filed against these modules
13:53 : j605, in any project, there is both theory and practice; if you need more understanding of codecs, ask for reference material on the subject
13:54 : j605, so you understand the theory, and then see how they are implemented (look at existing F/OSS solutions)
13:54 : sourabh1031 !
13:54 : mbuf j605, the biggest advantage of FLOSS is that we have the source code; but, take time going through it
13:54 : j605, compile the code, run the tests, tweak the code, re-build it, and see how it behaves
13:54 : next
13:54 : Rakshit__ How do you approach a mentor for a free software project ? and what are the prerequisite that the mentor looks for in a candidate? (sorry for out of queue entry above)
13:55 : Sarques_ !
13:55 : j605 mbuf: thanks for the detailed answer :)
13:55 : siddharth Rollcall:Siddharth Sahoo
13:55 : mbuf Rakshit__, that is answered in the mbuf_2ndclass.log at Jul 01 19:18:16
13:55 : Noory Rollcall:Fathima Shana Noory
13:56 : mbuf Rakshit__, it depends on person to person and project as well
13:56 : Rakshit__, it has to benefit both you and the project
13:57 : Rakshit__, basically, I look for good communication skills more than technical skills, but, having the aptitude to learn new things
13:57 : Rakshit__, technical skills can always be taught, provided you have the motivation and interest
13:57 : Rakshit__, but, if one is not able to explain the problem they are facing, or write technically in detail, there is no point
13:58 : Rakshit__, I would say 60%-40% (communication skills and technical know-how)
13:58 : next
13:58 : sourabh1031 If i am not able to understand whether the issue is a bug fix or feature requested then should I ask for it from mentor?
13:59 : Rakshit__ mbuf, ahh I see, thank you, will also go through the log properly once again.
13:59 : mbuf sourabh1031, you do not get to decide that; the team does
13:59 : sourabh1031 Can you rephrase?
13:59 : mbuf sourabh1031, it also depends on the nature of the bug; it could be a simple fix, or it might require a design change, in which, case depending on the project roadmap it may be treated as a feature request
14:00 : sourabh1031, when you begin working on a project, they will not give you commit access
14:00 : sourabh1031 mbuf got it
14:00 : mbuf sourabh1031, the project team will see how you are sending the patches, and if you are properly following the commit and project guidelines
14:00 : sourabh1031, only when they ascertain that you are diligent and follow best practices correctly, they will give you commit access
14:01 : sourabh1031, some projects have maintainers, and they act like gate-keepers; they can ask you to make changes to your patch, or may simply reject it
14:01 : sourabh1031, so, it depends on the mentor or the project team
14:01 : next
14:01 : Sarques_ mbuf how to implement things what i've learnt so far, whenever i see a project, i just get confused of where to start and i end up doing nothing.
14:02 : and how to improve my communication skills too?
14:02 : mbuf Sarques_, explain more on what you tried in a project and got confused
14:03 : Sarques_, practice the best communication skills that we have discussed from previous IRC sessions
14:03 : Sarques_, people still top-post in the mailing list; ask them to correct it
14:03 : siddharth !
14:03 : mbuf Sarques_, participate in IRC sessions and see how people communicate
14:03 : Sarques_, participate in forums or mailing lists; there are different communication channels meant for different needs
14:03 : Sarques_, unless you actively engage yourself, you will not learn
14:04 : Sarques_, education does not come to you; you go and seek it
14:04 : Sarques_ mbuf like when i see some machine learning project, i see their github repositories and then i don't understand what is happening and i don't even get the introduction of that project.
14:04 : Okay i will see that, thanks mbuf
14:04 : mbuf Sarques_, the question you should ask is do you have the theory understanding to take up such a project
14:05 : Sarques_, find a mentor who is currently working in the project, and seek their advice on how to get started with the project
14:05 : Sarques_, write to them about your skills, and they may suggest some courses or reading material for you to learn before you can get started with the project
14:05 : Sarques_, put a plan and work towards it; you need to constantly update the mentor in the project about your progress
14:06 : Sarques_, you can also blog about your work, so people know that you are actively working on these tasks
14:06 : Sarques_, it will also serve as documentation and reference for you, as well as for others
14:06 : Sarques_, that is why we first start with the communication skills and tools available in FLOSS
14:06 : next
14:06 : Sarques_ okay yes, i will surely do that. thanks
14:06 : jaydeep !
14:07 : siddharth As you mentioned practise is the only key to improve communication skills through participating in IRCs.But,What about spoken communication skills.Where we can sharpen our verbal skills.Can you advice some online community or something?
14:07 : mbuf siddharth, try to give talks in your local user group meetings, or meetup events
14:08 : siddharth, you can ask the audience for feedback; once you get some confidence in public speaking, you can try to submit talks to conferences
14:08 : next
14:08 : jaydeep mbuf, how to be more productive? I make a to-do list at the start of the day, but I manage to do only 2/5 tasks properly, and eventually I don't feel satisfied at the end of the day
14:09 : sourabh1031 !
14:10 : mbuf jaydeep, 2 / 5 is 40%, just pass! We are not here to pass, but, to excel
14:10 : jaydeep, did you measure the variance between your estimated time and the actual time you spent?
14:10 : jaydeep, what type of tasks were those?
14:11 : jaydeep mbuf, projects
14:11 : mbuf jaydeep, READ, WRITE, DEV, OPS?
14:12 : jaydeep mbuf, READ, DEV , WRITE respectively
14:12 : mbuf jaydeep, and which two tasks did you finish?
14:13 : jaydeep, beginners are very poor in estimating tasks, and it takes experience to master it
14:13 : jaydeep mbuf, I allocate a specific time period for different tasks, but I'm unable to finish them in given allocated time period, and I end up feeling unsatisfied
14:13 : mbuf jaydeep, that is why we started https://github.com/dgplug/operation-blue-moon
14:13 : jaydeep, you have not answered my question
14:14 : jaydeep, what type were the five tasks? what was the estimated time for each? what were the clocked times for each?
14:14 : jaydeep, you have to talk to me like an engineer; you are talking like a layman
14:14 : jaydeep mbuf, writing documentation and working few hours as a part of an internship, the 2 tasks I accomplished
14:14 : mbuf jaydeep, define "working"
14:15 : jaydeep, go through the Operation Blue Moon sprints to see how detailed we have the tasks defined
14:15 : jaydeep, for example, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dgplug/operation-blue-moon/master/archives/2018/mar-31-2018-apr-16-2018.org
14:15 : jaydeep, if you do not share numbers, we are not talking about productivity
14:16 : jaydeep mbuf, searching for APIs for building a specific product and to check if they can be implemented
14:16 : brute4s99 !
14:16 : mbuf jaydeep, that is the goal, not a task!
14:16 : jaydeep mbuf, sure, my numbers are like this :
14:16 : mbuf jaydeep, tasks need to be divided into sub-tasks; estimate each; define what types they are; at the end compute variance and standard deviation
14:16 : brute4s99 I'm sorry to interject, but may I know what's going on ?
14:17 : mbuf brute4s99, wait for your turn
14:17 : jaydeep Task 1: 3 hours, T2 : 3 hours , T3,T4,T5 : 2 hours each
14:17 : pradhvanbisht brute4s99, a session is going on
14:17 : mbuf jaydeep, and type of T1-T5?
14:18 : jaydeep, your communication needs to improve; I have to ask so many questions to get information out of you
14:18 : jaydeep, please go through Operation Blue Moon archives to see how we divide tasks into sub-tasks, estimates and actuals are recorded
14:18 : next
14:18 : jaydeep T1 - project, T2- Internship, T3- another project, T4 - guitar sessions , T5 - gre preparation
14:18 : sourabh1031 How to build leadership skills ?
14:18 : brute4s99
14:19 : mbuf jaydeep, they are not tasks, but, goals
14:19 : jaydeep mbuf, Okay, will definitely work on it
14:20 : kartikeya !
14:20 : mbuf sourabh1031, with experience
14:20 : sourabh1031, you first have to become an expert in a field where people accept you for who you are, and respect you for that
14:20 : sourabh1031, you will be approached automatically for guidance; when you mentor, you will gain experience
14:21 : sourabh1031, Rome was not built in a day, and so are true leaders
14:21 : next
14:21 : brute4s99
14:21 : sourabh1031 mbuf thanks
14:21 : jaydeep mbuf, Thank you :)
14:22 : mbuf next
14:22 : kartikeya i have just completed my second year, ending with an android app project in my pocket, should i be more focused on projects or look for an internship?
14:22 : mbuf kartikeya, it depends on what you want to learn, it does not matter if it is a project or an internship
14:23 : kartikeya, you have to define the end goal, and then see what path to take to achieve the end goal
14:23 : cypher01 !
14:23 : mbuf kartikeya, FLOSS gives you an opportunity to work with projects to gain valuable experience, irrespective of which country you are from
14:24 : kartikeya, working with people from other countries gives you a new experience, without even having to travel
14:24 : siddharth !
14:24 : mbuf kartikeya, and your contributions are there on the Internet for everyone to see
14:24 : kartikeya, but, you can try to do internships in FLOSS companies too, if you wish
14:24 : manas_tech rollcall Manas kashyap
14:24 : mbuf kartikeya, it depends on whether the internship opportunity meets your goals
14:24 : next
14:24 : kartikeya thakyou
14:24 : cypher01 mbuf: From where should I learn to write beautiful code rather than just writing any nonsense. By beautiful code I mean the code which is efficient, follow the correct standard and also makes the person reading it happy rather than give him/her headache.
14:25 : I researched a bit about it and was told by some to refer to the official documentation for it, a good author and practice, would you like to suggest any improvements to this approach from your great experience.
14:25 : mbuf cypher01, https://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
14:25 : cypher01, at least 10 years is what Peter Norvig says.
14:25 : cypher01, you have to read and write code daily; see how others have written the code
14:26 : cypher01, because the source code is available, the more you read code, the more you will try to use the techniques in your project
14:26 : cypher01, practice, practice, practice
14:26 : cypher01, ask your code to be reviewed by others; participate in code review sessions
14:27 : cypher01, just like a pilot needs to spend at least 10,000 hours flying when training, the hours you spend on code, writing, reading, learning will help you gain the experience
14:27 : cypher01 need a bit more information about code review sessions.
14:27 : mbuf checking social networking sites, mobile phones, and avoiding other distractions will also help
14:27 : cypher01, that is your homework
14:28 : cypher01 sure.
14:28 : mbuf next
14:28 : siddharth mbuf, How and where to start contributing on a project and how to approach a mentor to guide us for the same ?
14:28 : mbuf siddharth, a very generic question; that is answered in my presentation and the mbuf_2ndclass.log
14:29 : siddharth, go through the log and the presentation again, http://shakthimaan.com/downloads.html#i-want-2-do-project-tell-me-wat-2-do
14:29 : siddharth mbuf, But I am expecting something more than that session.
14:29 : mbuf I will also recommend to keep a copy of my book handy - http://www.shakthimaan.com/what-to-do.html
14:29 : siddharth, that has everything you need
14:29 : siddharth, if you have specific questions, ask
14:30 : siddharth
14:31 : mbuf I suggest that people go through the mbuf_2ndclass.log again, and review what we have discussed today.
14:32 : If you have any questions on the topic, please do some homework first, try to find solutions, and if you are still not satisfied, write to the mailing list or ask us on IRC
14:32 : Are there any more questions?
14:32 : cypher01 !
14:33 : mbuf next
14:33 : cypher01 mbuf: also does this approach helps "refer to the official documentation for it, a good author"?
14:33 : siddharth !
14:33 : mbuf cypher01, always refer to the project documentation, and it will help you get started
14:33 : cypher01, there are both user guides and reference manuals that you can use
14:34 : cypher01, every project also has IRC channel, which you can participate to get acquainted
14:34 : cypher01, some new projects may not have documentation, and you will need to use the code; but project team members are usually helpful, and you can seek help
14:34 : cypher01, or you can help with the documentation
14:34 : next
14:34 : cypher01 ok, thanks mbuf.
14:34 : siddharth Why in the calendar topics are not specified with what we are going to cover in the sessions of dgplug ?
14:35 : mbuf siddharth, that is beyond the scope of the session today; anything specific to mbuf_2ndclass.log?
14:35 : siddharth When we are going to start programming and related stuff.
14:36 : mbuf, Okay then.
14:36 : mbuf siddharth, Lesson 1: Patience, Lesson 2: Patience Lesson 3: Patience Lesson 4: Communication skilss
14:36 : siddharth, Lesson 5: Tools, and then we will see
14:36 : siddharth, we are not just about coding; we will get to that; but, the other skills are equally important and essential
14:37 : siddharth, because without that, it doesn't matter how beautiful your code is, if you cannot explain it to others, it is equal to not having it in the first place
14:38 : It has been an hour, and if there are no further questions, I will end the class
14:38 : Roll call
14:38 : gutsygeek Prashant Sharma
14:38 : jasonbraganza Jason Braganza
14:38 : storymode7 Mayank Singhal
14:38 : cypher01 Naman Sharma
14:38 : siddharth Siddharth Sahoo
14:38 : sourabh1031 Sourabh Pruthi
14:38 : mnjit Manjeet Mehta
14:38 : sehenaz Sehenaz Parvin
14:38 : sjha2048 Sahil
14:38 : man-jain Manank Patni
14:38 : priyankasaggu119 Priyanka Saggu
14:38 : v16k Vishal Kushwaha
14:38 : olajayi__ Ola Ajayi
14:38 : shiva Shiva Saxena
14:38 : kvy Kumar Vipin Yadav
14:38 : Sarques_ Gajendra Saraswat
14:38 : jaydeep Jaydeep Borkar
14:38 : pr97 Priyanka Sharma
14:38 : bhavin192 Bhavin Gandhi
14:38 : poojaencoded pooja kumari singh
14:38 : rishibit Rishikesh Bamdale
14:38 : snandi Shamik Nandi
14:38 : smule Shital Mule
14:38 : BhaveshSGupta[m] Bhavesh Gupta
14:38 : newrg Rajat Gupta
14:39 : avik Avik Mukherjee
14:39 : bismi Janifa M
14:39 : prabhu Prabhu Sharan Singh
14:39 : AdityaPatil Aditya Patil
14:39 : hellozee Kuntal Majumder
14:39 : callowidealist Jitendrs kumar tripathi